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~~ HYMNS OLD AND NEW ~~

Know how the 2x2s tend to change hymn words? Well, Isaac Watts famous hymn "When I Survey the Wondrous Cross" has a line that says:

Forbid it Lord that I should boast, Save in the cross of Christ my God....

Which has been changed, of course, in the 1987 hymn book to "Christ my Lord". [number 6] But did you know that the 2x2 old hymnbooks had the original words "Christ my God?"!!! [number 15 of the 1951 Hymns Old and New]

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_______--you're sharp! Yes, it has been pointed out before that Isaac Watt's hymn has been changed. The Forward Press carried this news a while back. I have wished for a long time that someone would undertake to compare each of the hymns in the book (1) written by outsiders with the text the author wrote originally and note the changes. And (2) written by insiders from the text of the 1951 hymnbook to the 1987 version. I feel sure some interesting things would likely turn up.

For instance, look at these words which were in hymns that were OMITTED from the 1987 book:

34: "He suffered in the sinners' stead." (they don’t believe in doctrineof substitutionary atonement)

38: "They who believe on His name shall rejoice." (they don't believe that believing is enough)

99: "His great salvation and life eternal He offers free to all." (they don't believe its free--has to be earned)

102: "Who died that we might live, who lives that we might with Him reign." (they believe he lived to be an example, rather than a substitute)

204: "Thou savest those that on thee call." (object to present tense of word "savest"--they believe one can't know they are saved until death)

239: (Cease Not) The last verse refers to the Trinity and the chorus reads: "I will not cease to worship Him, my Saviour and my God." (they do not accept the triune God)


275: "His forever, only His, Who the Lord and me shall part?" (They don't believe in eternal security)

279: "Or "blood-shelter'd" safe, confide thee in the glory of His grace." (They don't believe in eternal security)

296: "That nothing can untwine Thy life from mine." (reference to eternal security)

No 40 Old book: "By His Blood I now am saved"

No 45 New book: "By His Blood I am redeemed." (they don't believe we can know if saved NOW). They had to change the words in another line to make it fit too!

No. 165 Old book/389 New book, first verse completely left out which contains the phrase, "...and save us by His grace."

There are other interesting things one can note from the changes made to the 1987 hymnbook. The omissions are sometimes telling.

It is shocking to many to learn the high percentage of hymns written by OUTSIDERS in the hymnbook--for some have been told all the hymns were written by friends or workers.

Hymns written by workers or friends:

1987 hymn book = 28% (114 hymns out of 412)

1951 hymn book = 43% (143 out of 335)--by my calculations!!

The Hymnbook and Hymn Author lists are coded so that one can easily tell which is which:

Authors List: Each author's name that is in all capital letters is a 2x2 hymn

Hymnbook: Hymns with a copyright symbol on the page = 2x2 hymn

Did you know the numbers for Cooney's 4 hymns are the only ones on the Hymn Author list that are left BLANK??!! No credit given to the author--not even his name! I wrote R. L. Allan (publisher of Hymns Old and New in Scotland) about this omission, (who must have forwarded my letter). Ken Paginton replied to me on 2/24/92: "With regard to the four hymns--179, 182, 183, 184, these were written by E. Cooney in the early part of this century...With regard to the Authors List of Hymns Old & New for various private reasons the name is not given for those 4 hymns and this should be respected".

Patricia Roberts, author of the 2 books about Ed Cooney, said Ken contacted her for permission to reprint Edward Cooney's hymns in the latest version of the Hymns Old and New.

Regarding Leaflets, were you Westerners (USA) aware that the East did not use the Leaflets? Found this out when we moved from California to Mississippi!

Now, _____, I KNOW this is a whole lot more facts than you bargained for when you posted your notes on "When I Survey..."! I recall when I first noticed that also. I was reclining in my bathtub, with a Christian radio station going! They were singing (you guessed it!) "When I survey the wondrous cross..." I heard them sing "Christ my God". I sat straight up and said, "WHAT??" Got out, dried myself off and grabbed my hymnbook to make sure what it said! Then I looked that hymn up in other hymnal versions...

Oh--one more thing that many find surprising--the hymn so many of us professed while it was being sung, "Just as I am..." was written by an outsider! Books that give the backgrounds and stories about hymn authors say the author was severely handicapped, and was so grateful that the Lord accepted her JUST AS I AM... 2/97


One lady who was raised in the fellowship and who left after many years of professing told me she KNEW that Jesus was God. I wondered how she could and she told me that because of hymn number 239 in the old hymn book she just knew! In the fourth verse of #239 it says:

"Cease not to worship the Father and Son,The Holy Spirit, and *these Three are One,* ….

This is one hymn that has been removed from the new 1987 hymn book. I believe it is because the workers do NOT accept the Trinity (one God in three persons) and so they removed it. This hymn was actually written by James Fawcett, a worker, who was later put out of the work for strange ideas (he was probably RIGHT ON!)

Anyway, at least one of the friends understood who Christ is based on James’ hymn in the old book! 2/97


"I'll shout and sing" was changed too!

Too enthusiastic... (people like me MUST be restrained you know!) 2/97


Number 35 in the 1987 book begins with "God has always laboured human lives to win…" So I was very surprised to hear on Christian radio the same melody but the wonderful uplifting words: "Count your many blessings, count them one by one…" Different words! Same melody! 2/97

Hymn number 35 in Hymns Old and New gives us clues about salvation as believed by the workers:

"God's salvation is the Christ within,

Giving daily victory over sin.."

Any comments?

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---- The hymn you mentioned points to our own efforts in obtaining salvation and discounts Christ’s total sacrifice for our sins. Christ did not die so that WE could obtain victory over our sin. He died to TAKE OUR SIN upon HIMSELF.----

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>>>The hymn is supposed to be about salvation! Salvation doesn't have to be renewed on a daily basis. Salvation is given once--eternal life isn't given one day, snatched away the next, withheld because we had a bad thought or did a bad deed one minute, then given back when we think a good thought or do a good thing. This is the 2x2 logic that it is "works-based salvation" i.e. be good enough & you can earn your own salvation. At that rate, Christ didn't have to die on the cross for us because we could do enough good things to earn it for ourselves. It is a free, unmerited gift--we are saved by grace though faith. As far as anyone being unfair by insinuating something is wrong with that line--I don't think it's a matter of insinuation. As far as I can see & according to my scripture, that line of thinking is clearly wrong. As my proof text I'll use Galatians 5:1-4 which paraphrased says if we add anything to Christ we make Him of no effect and we are fallen from grace. 2/97

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***The first thing I do when someone calls attention to hymn words, is to look and see if the hymn was written by an insider or outsider.

AND THE ANSWER IS: Hymn 35 was written by Willie Hughes, who went in the work in 1906, laboring in NZ, Canada and Australia.***


Did you know that a lot of the hymns are Christian hymns and the words have been changed somewhat or changed completely? This is actually one of the first things that caused me to wonder! A long story, but basically I began hearing the hymns of other churches and wondered: "If *our* Hymns Old and New is exclusively *ours* why, oh why, are these other churches singing them? And how come some of the words are not quite the same? And how come I know the tune but the words are totally different? I thought the workers wouldn't have ANYTHING to do with OTHER churches so how CAN *we* be singing ANY of the same hymns?!!!" Really, I was very surprised! 9/96


The workers asked us to destroy our 1951 edition of Hymns Old and New when the 1987 edition came out. But we didn’t—couldn’t see the reason for doing so but lots of the friends did follow the workers suggestion. 2/97


Another experience while in college occurred when I talked with a Baptist roommate. I sure wish I knew then what I know now! One evening I was humming a hymn when she chimed in and started singing the words. Say what? These were PROFESSING hymns. Nothing WORLDLY like "Amazing Grace." Hymns that certainly no NON-PROFESSING person could ever know! Hymns which I believed WORKERS wrote. I was flabbergasted. I asked her how she knew the words.

She said, "Well, _____, they’re in our hymnal." No way! No Way! The following Sunday she brought one back to our dorm room from her church. We went through her hymnal and my "Old & New" and as I called out the titles, she responded, "Got it!" There were ones I named and she knew without even opening her hymnal. Not only did she know the titles, she would sing the entire first verse and chorus without looking them up! We sang together. Today, we know the true history of this WAY and know that these hymns were, indeed, taken from other religions. At that time, however, I was just sure the Baptists somehow stole those hymns from the WORKERS. It never even occurred to me that it is, in fact, the opposite.


Sam Jones was a worker who wrote many of the hymns found in Hymns Old & New.


Yes, sad indeed that the music of the friends is sad and speaks of needing to earn God's love. . . . . How these people can take a song speaking of how God takes us "Just As I Am…." and turn it into a funeral dirge is beyond me.....and it is very sad. 1/97


One of our family members likes to tell us when we get into discussions of what the beliefs of the 2x2 group are, that they are clearly represented in the"hymns old and new." Of course, the truth about that is that the hymns are a hodge-podge of salvation by grace and salvation by works. 10/96

What I would fault is the abuse of the hymns written by another to teach/support their message....etc.... 10/96


My mother has requested the following information be put on the list to be answered by anyone who can help...

She says..."regarding the changes in the hymn book, we were told that the'copyright' on some hymns had expired, and they therefore had to be removed. We were also told that changes were made to hymns because of copyright problems. Is any of this true? What is the real story?"

She is also very concerned about the fact that even though some hymn lines were changed, they were still presented in the hymn book with the original author/composer details...this she sees as a complete deceit and also a very serious issue - the Christian men who originally wrote these hymns are now having credited to them words they never wrote, and meanings they never meant.

I know the issue of hymn changes has been brought up before, but can anyone give Mum details of what the publishers/workers have said about the above issues? 2/97

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I remember looking through a small index card box 12 years ago or so which contained a card on each of the hymns and exactly which changes were made in each one, musically or word-wise. Jonathan Wright had it, he is a CA worker who did lots of work on the new hymnbook project. They published a hand-out too of all of the musical changes, there were over 75 changes to melody or rhythm (most of them good, but some for the worse in my opinion) -- I have mine still, but it doesn't list the changed words at all.

I remember helping to "smuggle" the new Spanish hymnbooks into Mexico.Their hymnbook was printed in Canada and bound in California, but never copyrighted. It uses some tunes such as "I Know Who Holds Tomorrow" and "Each Step I Take" which have never been in our book and are still in copyright by their authors/composers -- whether by permission or not I don't know, but I doubt it – it doesn't say so. The books have "No se vende" clearly printed on the first page, which means "Not to be sold", which they aren't. They are just given out free to the Latin American friends (and presumably to those in Spain), which I guess is a way to not have to bother with copyrights. Even though it is legal to take books down and give them out, we knew we would be hassled by the border guards who wouldn't believe that we weren't going to sell them, since we had hundreds to deliver. So we hid several boxes of them under the floor of an old van, along with a whole piano, believe it or not, which we had taken to pieces. We were going to give it to one of the families there, so again that was legal, though again the guards would have caused trouble if they had found it, thinking surely we intended to sell it. We got away with it all, convinced that the Lord had helped us to sneak in our contraband. 2/97

At the back of the hymn book there is a Topical Index. It is not in alphabetical order, but just take a look. You will NOT find the topic of SALVATION--at least not under that particular word. 2/97


Here is my revised hymn of #9 to the tune of "Jesus Came From Heaven Revealing":

IRVINE CAME FROM KILSYTH Irvine came from Kilsyth, Scotland, to the Emerald Isle of green. All his "truth" to us declaring, revelation now he'd seen. ch: We had followed, always followed workers steps, whate'er befall Looking always to the workers; they had conquered one and all. Deepest darkness is prevailing in the "truth" on every side. Many now have left the meetings; in the outside world abide. Information now has surfaced that the pris'ner might go free, More and more will hear the warning and will have their chance to flee. Satan's pow'r is what the workers say has made us weak and sway. We believe in information of the history of the way. To the tune of #9 in Hymns Old & New Scott November 26, 1997

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